[CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

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[CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Mark LaPierre-2
Hey All,

I just installed the newest version of Firefox that was pushed to
production today.  When I started Firefox the CentOS 7 Is Here splash
screen was displayed.  Out of curiosity I clicked on the [Documentation]
tab at the top of the screen and got this:

http://www.centos.org/docs/

Does anyone else see a problem here?

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Digimer-2
On 15/01/15 07:05 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> I just installed the newest version of Firefox that was pushed to
> production today.  When I started Firefox the CentOS 7 Is Here splash
> screen was displayed.  Out of curiosity I clicked on the [Documentation]
> tab at the top of the screen and got this:
>
> http://www.centos.org/docs/
>
> Does anyone else see a problem here?

Pfft, looks fine to me. "CentOS 7" is a typo. It's 2009, right?

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Darr247
In reply to this post by Mark LaPierre-2
On 16 January 2015 @00:05 zulu, Mark LaPierre wrote:

> Does anyone else see a problem here?

Try
https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/ 
then choose the version on the left.
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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Digimer-2
On 15/01/15 07:27 PM, Darr247 wrote:
> On 16 January 2015 @00:05 zulu, Mark LaPierre wrote:
>
>> Does anyone else see a problem here?
>
> Try
> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/
> then choose the version on the left.

While useful, I don't imagine that was Mark's point. CentOS links to a
very out of date website. So either the link should be changed or the
linked page should be updated.

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Always Learning-3
In reply to this post by Mark LaPierre-2

On Thu, 2015-01-15 at 19:05 -0500, Mark LaPierre wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> I just installed the newest version of Firefox that was pushed to
> production today.  When I started Firefox the CentOS 7 Is Here splash
> screen was displayed.  Out of curiosity I clicked on the [Documentation]
> tab at the top of the screen and got this:
>
> http://www.centos.org/docs/
>
> Does anyone else see a problem here?

Someone has stolen something :-)


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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Valeri Galtsev

On Thu, January 15, 2015 6:50 pm, Always Learning wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2015-01-15 at 19:05 -0500, Mark LaPierre wrote:
>> Hey All,
>>
>> I just installed the newest version of Firefox that was pushed to
>> production today.  When I started Firefox the CentOS 7 Is Here splash
>> screen was displayed.  Out of curiosity I clicked on the [Documentation]
>> tab at the top of the screen and got this:
>>
>> http://www.centos.org/docs/
>>
>> Does anyone else see a problem here?
>
> Someone has stolen something :-)
>
                              from somebody ;-)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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University of Chicago
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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Darr247
In reply to this post by Digimer-2
On 16 January 2015 @00:34 zulu, Digimer wrote:
> So either the link should be changed or the linked page should be
> updated.
>

Well, until someone rewrites the redhat docs so they don't violate
copyright laws, and links to them on that centos.org/docs page, I'll
continue perusing and referring to the RHEL 6 and 7 documentation.
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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Digimer-2
On 15/01/15 10:55 PM, Darr247 wrote:
> On 16 January 2015 @00:34 zulu, Digimer wrote:
>> So either the link should be changed or the linked page should be
>> updated.
>>
>
> Well, until someone rewrites the redhat docs so they don't violate
> copyright laws, and links to them on that centos.org/docs page, I'll
> continue perusing and referring to the RHEL 6 and 7 documentation.

Totally, which is why I started by saying your link was helpful. :)

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Mark LaPierre-2
In reply to this post by Darr247
On 01/15/15 22:55, Darr247 wrote:
> On 16 January 2015 @00:34 zulu, Digimer wrote:
>> So either the link should be changed or the linked page should be
>> updated.
>>
>
> Well, until someone rewrites the redhat docs so they don't violate
> copyright laws, and links to them on that centos.org/docs page, I'll
> continue perusing and referring to the RHEL 6 and 7 documentation.
> _______________________________________________

Alright then.  May I suggest a solution that might satisfy both opinions.

On the documentation page where the links to CentOS [345] are found
place a statement to this effect:

"CentOS is functionally equivalent to Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
and is based on the same code, as released by Red Hat, and rebuilt by
the CentOS community."  At this point briefly explain the moral
conundrum that prevents you from linking directly to the RHEL
documentation.  Then provide the appropriate link to the appropriate
RHEL documentation with the explanation that, "this is a link to the
documentation for RHEL upon which CentOS is based."  There you have a
disclaimer as well as an attribution.

What say yea to this proposal?

An undocumented computer program differs only slightly from a video
game.  Both are filled with mysteries, puzzles, and unanswered questions.

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Digimer-2
On 17/01/15 09:14 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

> On 01/15/15 22:55, Darr247 wrote:
>> On 16 January 2015 @00:34 zulu, Digimer wrote:
>>> So either the link should be changed or the linked page should be
>>> updated.
>>>
>>
>> Well, until someone rewrites the redhat docs so they don't violate
>> copyright laws, and links to them on that centos.org/docs page, I'll
>> continue perusing and referring to the RHEL 6 and 7 documentation.
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Alright then.  May I suggest a solution that might satisfy both opinions.
>
> On the documentation page where the links to CentOS [345] are found
> place a statement to this effect:
>
> "CentOS is functionally equivalent to Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
> and is based on the same code, as released by Red Hat, and rebuilt by
> the CentOS community."  At this point briefly explain the moral
> conundrum that prevents you from linking directly to the RHEL
> documentation.  Then provide the appropriate link to the appropriate
> RHEL documentation with the explanation that, "this is a link to the
> documentation for RHEL upon which CentOS is based."  There you have a
> disclaimer as well as an attribution.
>
> What say yea to this proposal?
>
> An undocumented computer program differs only slightly from a video
> game.  Both are filled with mysteries, puzzles, and unanswered questions.

I think it's a fantastic idea. Any CentOS people care to comment?

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Karanbir Singh
In reply to this post by Mark LaPierre-2
On 01/18/2015 02:14 AM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

> On 01/15/15 22:55, Darr247 wrote:
>> On 16 January 2015 @00:34 zulu, Digimer wrote:
>>> So either the link should be changed or the linked page should be
>>> updated.
>>>
>>
>> Well, until someone rewrites the redhat docs so they don't violate
>> copyright laws, and links to them on that centos.org/docs page, I'll
>> continue perusing and referring to the RHEL 6 and 7 documentation.
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Alright then.  May I suggest a solution that might satisfy both opinions.
>
> On the documentation page where the links to CentOS [345] are found
> place a statement to this effect:
>
> "CentOS is functionally equivalent to Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)

but its not.

> and is based on the same code, as released by Red Hat, and rebuilt by
> the CentOS community."  At this point briefly explain the moral

that does not make it functionally equivalent.

> conundrum that prevents you from linking directly to the RHEL
> documentation.  Then provide the appropriate link to the appropriate
> RHEL documentation with the explanation that, "this is a link to the
> documentation for RHEL upon which CentOS is based."  There you have a
> disclaimer as well as an attribution.
>
> What say yea to this proposal?

why not just say 'CentOS Linux is derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux
sources as released via git.centos.org and therefore documentation
applicable to Red Hat Enterprise Linux should largely apply to CentOS
Linux of the same version, architecture and release.'

And leave it at that ( note: no linking, therefore no assertions of
compatibility or equivallencce ).

> An undocumented computer program differs only slightly from a video
> game.  Both are filled with mysteries, puzzles, and unanswered questions.

Therefore, lets do the right thing - get the means together in community
to adapt those docs, brand them accordingly and publish them under
centos.org

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Mark LaPierre-2
On 01/18/15 03:45, Karanbir Singh wrote:

> On 01/18/2015 02:14 AM, Mark LaPierre wrote:
>> On 01/15/15 22:55, Darr247 wrote:
>>> On 16 January 2015 @00:34 zulu, Digimer wrote:
>>>> So either the link should be changed or the linked page should be
>>>> updated.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, until someone rewrites the redhat docs so they don't violate
>>> copyright laws, and links to them on that centos.org/docs page, I'll
>>> continue perusing and referring to the RHEL 6 and 7 documentation.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Alright then.  May I suggest a solution that might satisfy both opinions.
>>
>> On the documentation page where the links to CentOS [345] are found
>> place a statement to this effect:
>>
>> "CentOS is functionally equivalent to Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
>
> but its not.
>
>> and is based on the same code, as released by Red Hat, and rebuilt by
>> the CentOS community."  At this point briefly explain the moral
>
> that does not make it functionally equivalent.
>
>> conundrum that prevents you from linking directly to the RHEL
>> documentation.  Then provide the appropriate link to the appropriate
>> RHEL documentation with the explanation that, "this is a link to the
>> documentation for RHEL upon which CentOS is based."  There you have a
>> disclaimer as well as an attribution.
>>
>> What say yea to this proposal?
>
> why not just say 'CentOS Linux is derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux
> sources as released via git.centos.org and therefore documentation
> applicable to Red Hat Enterprise Linux should largely apply to CentOS
> Linux of the same version, architecture and release.'
>
> And leave it at that ( note: no linking, therefore no assertions of
> compatibility or equivallencce ).
>
>> An undocumented computer program differs only slightly from a video
>> game.  Both are filled with mysteries, puzzles, and unanswered questions.
>
> Therefore, lets do the right thing - get the means together in community
> to adapt those docs, brand them accordingly and publish them under
> centos.org
>

I'm up for that.  My time is a bit limited but I would like to help.
Can anyone hold my hand a bit while I learn the ropes?  I'm not much
good at C or C++ but I can write documentation.  Especially if it's
already pretty much written and all I have to do is copy and paste.

First thing we will need is someone who is willing and able to head up
this effort.

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Digimer-2
In reply to this post by Karanbir Singh
On 18/01/15 03:45 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote:

> On 01/18/2015 02:14 AM, Mark LaPierre wrote:
>> On 01/15/15 22:55, Darr247 wrote:
>>> On 16 January 2015 @00:34 zulu, Digimer wrote:
>>>> So either the link should be changed or the linked page should be
>>>> updated.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, until someone rewrites the redhat docs so they don't violate
>>> copyright laws, and links to them on that centos.org/docs page, I'll
>>> continue perusing and referring to the RHEL 6 and 7 documentation.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Alright then.  May I suggest a solution that might satisfy both opinions.
>>
>> On the documentation page where the links to CentOS [345] are found
>> place a statement to this effect:
>>
>> "CentOS is functionally equivalent to Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
>
> but its not.
>
>> and is based on the same code, as released by Red Hat, and rebuilt by
>> the CentOS community."  At this point briefly explain the moral
>
> that does not make it functionally equivalent.
>
>> conundrum that prevents you from linking directly to the RHEL
>> documentation.  Then provide the appropriate link to the appropriate
>> RHEL documentation with the explanation that, "this is a link to the
>> documentation for RHEL upon which CentOS is based."  There you have a
>> disclaimer as well as an attribution.
>>
>> What say yea to this proposal?
>
> why not just say 'CentOS Linux is derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux
> sources as released via git.centos.org and therefore documentation
> applicable to Red Hat Enterprise Linux should largely apply to CentOS
> Linux of the same version, architecture and release.'
>
> And leave it at that ( note: no linking, therefore no assertions of
> compatibility or equivallencce ).
>
>> An undocumented computer program differs only slightly from a video
>> game.  Both are filled with mysteries, puzzles, and unanswered questions.
>
> Therefore, lets do the right thing - get the means together in community
> to adapt those docs, brand them accordingly and publish them under
> centos.org

Is it legal to copy the documentation and replace trademarks? IANAL... :)

Alternatively, if we can't copy RHEL docs, can we copy Fedora 12~13,
18~19 docs and adapt as needed? Or would be have to write everything
from scratch?

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Darr247
In reply to this post by Mark LaPierre-2
On 18 January 2015 @19:07 zulu, Mark LaPierre wrote:
> good at C or C++ but I can write documentation. Especially if it's
> already pretty much written and all I have to do is copy and paste.


Unless you get RH's permission in writing to do so, in advance, I'm
pretty-sure copy and paste does not meet the "so it doesn't violate
copyright law" criterion I mentioned earlier.

Even if you're not doing it for any type of monetary gain... the DMCA
and WIPO loom large.
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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Tim
Just my two cents: Anyone thought of asking Red Hat to use documentation? I think they are getting much from the community so to copy public accessible documentation when permitted by RH could be an easy way.

Why not giving that a try?

Am 18. Januar 2015 20:56:59 MEZ, schrieb Darr247 <[hidden email]>:

>On 18 January 2015 @19:07 zulu, Mark LaPierre wrote:
>> good at C or C++ but I can write documentation. Especially if it's
>> already pretty much written and all I have to do is copy and paste.
>
>
>Unless you get RH's permission in writing to do so, in advance, I'm
>pretty-sure copy and paste does not meet the "so it doesn't violate
>copyright law" criterion I mentioned earlier.
>
>Even if you're not doing it for any type of monetary gain... the DMCA
>and WIPO loom large.
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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Peter Ajamian
On 01/19/2015 10:51 AM, Tim wrote:
> Just my two cents: Anyone thought of asking Red Hat to use
> documentation? I think they are getting much from the community so
> to copy public accessible documentation when permitted by RH could be
> an easy way.
>
> Why not giving that a try?

There's no need to ask them, they've already given permission:

> Copyright © 2014 Red Hat, Inc.
> This document is licensed by Red Hat under the Creative Commons
> Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. If you distribute this
> document, or a modified version of it, you must provide attribution
> to Red Hat, Inc. and provide a link to the original. If the document
> is modified, all Red Hat trademarks must be removed.

I'd say that's good enough.


Peter
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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Mark LaPierre-2
On 01/18/15 22:55, Peter wrote:

> On 01/19/2015 10:51 AM, Tim wrote:
>> Just my two cents: Anyone thought of asking Red Hat to use
>> documentation? I think they are getting much from the community so
>> to copy public accessible documentation when permitted by RH could be
>> an easy way.
>>
>> Why not giving that a try?
>
> There's no need to ask them, they've already given permission:
>
>> Copyright © 2014 Red Hat, Inc.
>> This document is licensed by Red Hat under the Creative Commons
>> Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. If you distribute this
>> document, or a modified version of it, you must provide attribution
>> to Red Hat, Inc. and provide a link to the original. If the document
>> is modified, all Red Hat trademarks must be removed.
>
> I'd say that's good enough.
>
>
> Peter
> _______________________________________________

Well then there appears to be no reason to not go with a version of my
initial suggestion.

State what CentOS is and what it's sources are.  State that there may be
some minor divergence between the behavior of CantOS and the Red Hat
documentation.  You can explain why if you feel that it's required.

Attribute the documentation to Red Hat.

Provide a link to the original Red Hat documentation as required in
their copyright statement.

By taking these steps we would be exceeding the requirements of the
license in that we are providing the attribution and the link even
though we are not distributing the document, or a modified version of it.

By providing a link to the documentation we would no more be
distributing the documentation than Google would be distributing the
Weather Channel by providing a link to it in their search results.

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Peter Ajamian
On 01/19/2015 05:18 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

> Well then there appears to be no reason to not go with a version of my
> initial suggestion.
>
> State what CentOS is and what it's sources are.  State that there may be
> some minor divergence between the behavior of CantOS and the Red Hat
> documentation.  You can explain why if you feel that it's required.
>
> Attribute the documentation to Red Hat.
>
> Provide a link to the original Red Hat documentation as required in
> their copyright statement.
>
> By taking these steps we would be exceeding the requirements of the
> license in that we are providing the attribution and the link even
> though we are not distributing the document, or a modified version of it.
>
> By providing a link to the documentation we would no more be
> distributing the documentation than Google would be distributing the
> Weather Channel by providing a link to it in their search results.

I don't see why we couldn't, or shouldn't modify it, though, so logn as
we first make sure to comply with the rest of the license provisions, ie
remove RedHat trademarks, give appropriate attribution and link to the
original docs, then we can go ahead and modify it wiki-style so that it
reflects the differences in CentOS.


Peter
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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

Digimer-2
On 19/01/15 12:37 AM, Peter wrote:

> On 01/19/2015 05:18 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:
>> Well then there appears to be no reason to not go with a version of my
>> initial suggestion.
>>
>> State what CentOS is and what it's sources are.  State that there may be
>> some minor divergence between the behavior of CantOS and the Red Hat
>> documentation.  You can explain why if you feel that it's required.
>>
>> Attribute the documentation to Red Hat.
>>
>> Provide a link to the original Red Hat documentation as required in
>> their copyright statement.
>>
>> By taking these steps we would be exceeding the requirements of the
>> license in that we are providing the attribution and the link even
>> though we are not distributing the document, or a modified version of it.
>>
>> By providing a link to the documentation we would no more be
>> distributing the documentation than Google would be distributing the
>> Weather Channel by providing a link to it in their search results.
>
> I don't see why we couldn't, or shouldn't modify it, though, so logn as
> we first make sure to comply with the rest of the license provisions, ie
> remove RedHat trademarks, give appropriate attribution and link to the
> original docs, then we can go ahead and modify it wiki-style so that it
> reflects the differences in CentOS.
>
>
> Peter

A wiki format would be fantastic.

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Re: [CentOS] Documentation link on new Firefox CentOS 7 splash screen

John R Pierce
In reply to this post by Peter Ajamian
On 1/18/2015 9:37 PM, Peter wrote:
> I don't see why we couldn't, or shouldn't modify it, though, so logn as
> we first make sure to comply with the rest of the license provisions, ie
> remove RedHat trademarks, give appropriate attribution and link to the
> original docs, then we can go ahead and modify it wiki-style so that it
> reflects the differences in CentOS.


--
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