[CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

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[CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Oliver Schad
Just FYI:

I had several problems to install CentOS 7 with 512 MB RAM. No log
showed me that problem (I would expect a system check before).

With 1 GB RAM everything runs fine. Don't know, what they do with
more than 512 MB RAM on a text only system during installation ...

Best Regards
Oli

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Keith Keller
On 2014-09-07, Oliver Schad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> With 1 GB RAM everything runs fine. Don't know, what they do with
> more than 512 MB RAM on a text only system during installation ...

Could switch to a different console and bounce on top, if you're
interested.

512MB seems really small these days, so I'm guessing you're using this
as a small appliance box like a NAT router.  Is there a reason you
prefer CentOS over a distro targeted to your application?  If it's a NAT
router, for example, there are a bunch of slim-profile distros which are
designed specifically for NAT routing on a small system.

--keith

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Oliver Schad
On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:08:18 -0700
Keith Keller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-09-07, Oliver Schad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > With 1 GB RAM everything runs fine. Don't know, what they do with
> > more than 512 MB RAM on a text only system during installation ...
>
> Could switch to a different console and bounce on top, if you're
> interested.
>
> 512MB seems really small these days, so I'm guessing you're using this
> as a small appliance box like a NAT router.
No, a basic box for common services like DHCP, DNS, SMTP, Nginx, ...
doesn't need much RAM, so 512 MB is really enough.

> Is there a reason you
> prefer CentOS over a distro targeted to your application?

I don't see a reason, why I should have a zoo of distros. A productive
basic installation of CentOS 7 needs ~ 100 MB RAM. Why the installation
needs more than 5 times that is really interesting question.

Best Regards
Oli

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

John R Pierce
On 9/7/2014 11:31 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
> No, a basic box for common services like DHCP, DNS, SMTP, Nginx, ...
> doesn't need much RAM, so 512 MB is really enough.

a $50 beaglebone black has 512MB ram, and is best run with ucLinux and
busybox.

That is not the target market of RHEL7 and therefore CentOS 7.

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Oliver Schad
On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:38:36 -0700
John R Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/7/2014 11:31 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
> > No, a basic box for common services like DHCP, DNS, SMTP, Nginx, ...
> > doesn't need much RAM, so 512 MB is really enough.
>
> a $50 beaglebone black has 512MB ram, and is best run with ucLinux
> and busybox.
>
> That is not the target market of RHEL7 and therefore CentOS 7.

If you have 1.000 or 10.000 machines it *is* a reason to
think about every fucking dollar per machine you can save each month.

And CentOS 7 runs perfectly with 512 MB RAM, only the installer is
br0ken. Is it a java installer? *g*

Best Regards
Oli

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

John R Pierce
On 9/7/2014 11:44 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
> And CentOS 7 runs perfectly with 512 MB RAM

https://access.redhat.com/articles/rhel-limits says 1GB minimum for x86_64.



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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

SternData
In reply to this post by Oliver Schad
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/07/2014 01:31 PM, Oliver Schad wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:08:18 -0700
> Keith Keller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-09-07, Oliver Schad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> With 1 GB RAM everything runs fine. Don't know, what they do with
>>> more than 512 MB RAM on a text only system during installation ...
>>
>> Could switch to a different console and bounce on top, if you're
>> interested.
>>
>> 512MB seems really small these days, so I'm guessing you're using this
>> as a small appliance box like a NAT router.
>
> No, a basic box for common services like DHCP, DNS, SMTP, Nginx, ...
> doesn't need much RAM, so 512 MB is really enough.
>
>> Is there a reason you
>> prefer CentOS over a distro targeted to your application?
>
> I don't see a reason, why I should have a zoo of distros. A productive
> basic installation of CentOS 7 needs ~ 100 MB RAM. Why the installation
> needs more than 5 times that is really interesting question.
>
> Best Regards
> Oli
>
As soon as you throw in a web server and/or MySQL, you need more.  The
RAM is really defined by what the system is going to be doing.


- --
- -- Steve
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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Oliver Schad
In reply to this post by John R Pierce
On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:48:36 -0700
John R Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/7/2014 11:44 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
> > And CentOS 7 runs perfectly with 512 MB RAM
>
> https://access.redhat.com/articles/rhel-limits says 1GB minimum for
> x86_64.

It doesn't matter what it says. What matters is to think about
ressources, even in a linux distro with long term support and
enterprise features.

Enterprise doesn't mean waste your money. And really, to double the
memory to install a machine - are you kidding me? They've never thought
about it and I really hate this attitude.

Best Regards
Oli

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Valeri Galtsev
In reply to this post by Keith Keller

On Sun, September 7, 2014 1:08 pm, Keith Keller wrote:
> On 2014-09-07, Oliver Schad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> With 1 GB RAM everything runs fine. Don't know, what they do with
>> more than 512 MB RAM on a text only system during installation ...

Interestingly: I just looked up FreeBSD 64 bit (amd64 they call what Linux
calls x86_64) installation requirements: you need at least 64 MB of RAM
for installation ;-)  Of course, you will need _much_ more just to run
Xwindow system on that box...

Somehow it comes to my mind what someone called M$ Windows somewhere
around Windows XP: "bloated pig" ;-)

>
> Could switch to a different console and bounce on top, if you're
> interested.
>
> 512MB seems really small these days, so I'm guessing you're using this
> as a small appliance box like a NAT router.  Is there a reason you
> prefer CentOS over a distro targeted to your application?  If it's a NAT
> router, for example, there are a bunch of slim-profile distros which are
> designed specifically for NAT routing on a small system.
>
> --keith
>
> --
> [hidden email]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Mike Burger
In reply to this post by Oliver Schad
On 2014-09-07 2:56 pm, Oliver Schad wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:48:36 -0700
> John R Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/7/2014 11:44 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
>> > And CentOS 7 runs perfectly with 512 MB RAM
>>
>> https://access.redhat.com/articles/rhel-limits says 1GB minimum for
>> x86_64.
>
> It doesn't matter what it says. What matters is to think about
> ressources, even in a linux distro with long term support and
> enterprise features.
>
> Enterprise doesn't mean waste your money. And really, to double the
> memory to install a machine - are you kidding me? They've never thought
> about it and I really hate this attitude.
>
> Best Regards
> Oli

Oli...perhaps instead of taking out your anger and frustration on the
CentOS packagers, you might wish to vent at the Upstream...because, when
all is said and done, CentOS is a repackaged RHEL. Whatever the
requirements are for the upstream are the requirements for CentOS.
Whatever the installer looks for in RHEL is going to be the same thing
that the installer looks for in CentOS.

I will leave you with this minor piece of wisdome, which I've seen
repeated in this list many times: if you don't agree with the
requirements or feel that there's a bug in the installer, you are more
than welcome to file a bug report with the upstream.
--
Mike Burger
http://www.bubbanfriends.org

"It's always suicide-mission this, save-the-planet that. No one ever
just stops by to say 'hi' anymore." --Colonel Jack O'Neill, SG1

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Oliver Schad
On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 15:04:12 -0400
Mike Burger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oli...perhaps instead of taking out your anger and frustration on the
> CentOS packagers

My first statement was a simple "FYI" so that you know this requirement
during installation.

I found one problem with the initramfs file which has 300 MB in a
tmpfs. The rest of the memory is used by processes, round about 300 MB.

tmpfs: /run/, 311 MB used

Anaconda is fat with ~ 200 MB, rest are our best friends, systemd,
polkit and other new bloat.

Best Regards
Oli

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Oliver Schad
On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:19:01 +0200
Oliver Schad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> tmpfs: /run/, 311 MB used

That is really funny: inside of this ramdisk is a tmp dir, with 279 MB
inside, where the biggest part is the squashfs image and some files
which are generated after start of installation.

├── curl_fetch_url0
├── curl_fetch_url1
│   └── squashfs.img
├── curl_fetch_url2
├── curl_fetch_url3
├── dhclient.eth0.dhcpopts
├── dhclient.eth0.lease
├── dhclient.eth0.pid
├── F3ilzP-ks.cfg
├── ifcfg
│   └── ifcfg-eth0
├── ifcfg-leases
│   └── dhclient-fb2320f7-4d9f-417f-ad33-33105024ca08-eth0.lease
├── ks.cfg
├── ks.cfg.done
├── ks.info
├── net.52:54:00:7b:80:c7.did-setup
├── net.eth0.dhcpopts
├── net.eth0.did-setup
├── net.eth0.gw
├── net.eth0.hostname
├── net.eth0.hwaddr
├── net.eth0.lease
├── net.eth0.manualup
├── net.eth0.pid
├── net.eth0.resolv.conf
├── net.eth0.up
├── net.ifaces
└── net.lo.manualup

That means that the squashfs is packed inside a initramfs during
installation? I don't get the idea because we *have* a running system
with a initramfs, that is the primer for the whole boot.

Best Regards
Oli

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

John R Pierce
In reply to this post by Oliver Schad
On 9/7/2014 11:56 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:48:36 -0700
> John R Pierce<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> >On 9/7/2014 11:44 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
>>> > >And CentOS 7 runs perfectly with 512 MB RAM
>> >
>> >https://access.redhat.com/articles/rhel-limits  says 1GB minimum for
>> >x86_64.
> It doesn't matter what it says.

Take it up with Red Hat.    They state it requires 1GB, that was their
choice.    it installs in 1GB just fine.



--
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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Oliver Schad
In reply to this post by Oliver Schad
Ok, final result: deleting the initramfs files results in a clean
installation. So we waste ~300 MB RAM during installation with a file
nobody needs. Great.

Best Regards
Oli

On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:45:40 +0200
Oliver Schad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:19:01 +0200
> Oliver Schad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > tmpfs: /run/, 311 MB used
>
> That is really funny: inside of this ramdisk is a tmp dir, with 279 MB
> inside, where the biggest part is the squashfs image and some files
> which are generated after start of installation.
>
> ├── curl_fetch_url0
> ├── curl_fetch_url1
> │   └── squashfs.img
> ├── curl_fetch_url2
> ├── curl_fetch_url3
> ├── dhclient.eth0.dhcpopts
> ├── dhclient.eth0.lease
> ├── dhclient.eth0.pid
> ├── F3ilzP-ks.cfg
> ├── ifcfg
> │   └── ifcfg-eth0
> ├── ifcfg-leases
> │   └── dhclient-fb2320f7-4d9f-417f-ad33-33105024ca08-eth0.lease
> ├── ks.cfg
> ├── ks.cfg.done
> ├── ks.info
> ├── net.52:54:00:7b:80:c7.did-setup
> ├── net.eth0.dhcpopts
> ├── net.eth0.did-setup
> ├── net.eth0.gw
> ├── net.eth0.hostname
> ├── net.eth0.hwaddr
> ├── net.eth0.lease
> ├── net.eth0.manualup
> ├── net.eth0.pid
> ├── net.eth0.resolv.conf
> ├── net.eth0.up
> ├── net.ifaces
> └── net.lo.manualup
>
> That means that the squashfs is packed inside a initramfs during
> installation? I don't get the idea because we *have* a running system
> with a initramfs, that is the primer for the whole boot.
>
> Best Regards
> Oli

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Valeri Galtsev
In reply to this post by Mike Burger

On Sun, September 7, 2014 2:04 pm, Mike Burger wrote:

> On 2014-09-07 2:56 pm, Oliver Schad wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:48:36 -0700
>> John R Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/7/2014 11:44 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
>>> > And CentOS 7 runs perfectly with 512 MB RAM
>>>
>>> https://access.redhat.com/articles/rhel-limits says 1GB minimum for
>>> x86_64.
>>
>> It doesn't matter what it says. What matters is to think about
>> ressources, even in a linux distro with long term support and
>> enterprise features.
>>
>> Enterprise doesn't mean waste your money. And really, to double the
>> memory to install a machine - are you kidding me? They've never thought
>> about it and I really hate this attitude.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Oli
>
> Oli...perhaps instead of taking out your anger and frustration on the
> CentOS packagers, you might wish to vent at the Upstream...

I wouldn't even do that, because what they do they do for their customers,
right?

Valeri

> because, when
> all is said and done, CentOS is a repackaged RHEL. Whatever the
> requirements are for the upstream are the requirements for CentOS.
> Whatever the installer looks for in RHEL is going to be the same thing
> that the installer looks for in CentOS.
>
> I will leave you with this minor piece of wisdome, which I've seen
> repeated in this list many times: if you don't agree with the
> requirements or feel that there's a bug in the installer, you are more
> than welcome to file a bug report with the upstream.
> --
> Mike Burger
> http://www.bubbanfriends.org
>
> "It's always suicide-mission this, save-the-planet that. No one ever
> just stops by to say 'hi' anymore." --Colonel Jack O'Neill, SG1
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Frantisek Hanzlik
In reply to this post by John R Pierce
John R Pierce wrote:

> On 9/7/2014 11:56 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:48:36 -0700
>> John R Pierce<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> >On 9/7/2014 11:44 AM, Oliver Schad wrote:
>>>> > >And CentOS 7 runs perfectly with 512 MB RAM
>>> >
>>> >https://access.redhat.com/articles/rhel-limits  says 1GB minimum for
>>> >x86_64.
>> It doesn't matter what it says.
>
> Take it up with Red Hat.    They state it requires 1GB, that was their
> choice.    it installs in 1GB just fine.

In my experience with the installation of Fedora 19/20 (same sort of
anaconda installator, F19 has v19.30.13, F20 v20.25.16, Centos 7 has
v19.31.79), RAM requirements also depend on the number of packages
and their size. On some slightly larger installation (kickstart
install from 8 repositories with over 50000 RPMs, 3600+ packages was
installed, highest rpm package file had over 200 MB in size) was
1.5 GB RAM insufficient, with 2 GB RAM installation was successful.

Franta Hanzlik

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Les Mikesell
In reply to this post by Mike Burger
On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Mike Burger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Oli...perhaps instead of taking out your anger and frustration on the CentOS
> packagers, you might wish to vent at the Upstream...because, when all is
> said and done, CentOS is a repackaged RHEL. Whatever the requirements are
> for the upstream are the requirements for CentOS. Whatever the installer
> looks for in RHEL is going to be the same thing that the installer looks for
> in CentOS.

Well they did have the opportunity to make changes in the minimal iso
since that doesn't directly correspond to a RHEL version.   I haven't
used it yet because I already had the dvd downloaded, but if you have
reasonable internet bandwidth, I think a minimal initial install makes
sense, followed by telling yum to install whatever else you might need
since there's a good change you'll download them as updates anyway.

--
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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

John R Pierce
On 9/7/2014 3:40 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Well they did have the opportunity to make changes in the minimal iso
> since that doesn't directly correspond to a RHEL version.   I haven't
> used it yet because I already had the dvd downloaded, but if you have
> reasonable internet bandwidth, I think a minimal initial install makes
> sense, followed by telling yum to install whatever else you might need
> since there's a good change you'll download them as updates anyway.

the RPMs are all the same RPMs.   they woudl have had to build a
completely new installer rather than just a kickstart that specifies the
minimum packages

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Les Mikesell
On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 5:48 PM, John R Pierce <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/7/2014 3:40 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
>>
>> Well they did have the opportunity to make changes in the minimal iso
>> since that doesn't directly correspond to a RHEL version.   I haven't
>> used it yet because I already had the dvd downloaded, but if you have
>> reasonable internet bandwidth, I think a minimal initial install makes
>> sense, followed by telling yum to install whatever else you might need
>> since there's a good change you'll download them as updates anyway.
>
>
> the RPMs are all the same RPMs.   they woudl have had to build a completely
> new installer rather than just a kickstart that specifies the minimum
> packages

It might be possible to trim the size of the ramdisk that is a large
part of the requirement.

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Re: [CentOS] Minimum RAM for CentOS7

Always Learning-3
In reply to this post by Valeri Galtsev

On Sun, 2014-09-07 at 14:00 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote:

> Somehow it comes to my mind what someone called M$ Windows somewhere
> around Windows XP: "bloated pig" ;-)

Starting with Windoze 95, it has been "bloatware".



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Paul.
England, EU.

   Centos, Exim, Apache, Libre Office.
   Linux is the future. Micro$oft is the past.

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